I wonder if Carlson is the smoking gun I needed years ago. Back when Reagan was president, a friend of mine and I got into an argument. I said the GOP leadership had to be liars, because no one in their positions of power and levels of education could actually believe what they were saying, while he, as a long standing member of AA, argued that humans were quite capable of rationalizing falsehoods so that they themselves believed them. But if Carlson is playing dumb, then she must think her viewers are dumb, which leads me to believe she might know what she is saying is dumb.
As an aside for those of you who have read enough of my post to wonder, he won the argument by saying that not everyone was as well read and introspective as I was. At the time I just gave in and agreed, but two hours later I started laughing because I realized I'd given in because of my ego; if a sales rep or politician had said something like that, it never would have worked.
I said the GOP leadership had to be liars, because no one in their positions of power and levels of education could actually believe what they were saying, while he, as a long standing member of AA, argued that humans were quite capable of rationalizing falsehoods so that they themselves believed them. But if Carlson is playing dumb, then she must think her viewers are dumb, which leads me to believe she might know what she is saying is dumb.
Unless you have psychic powers, you're never going to know that for sure and anyway, "if you were smart, you'd believe the exact same things that I do so if you don't, you're either a liar or an idiot" is hardly the type of argument I would expect to hear from an enlightened person.
As noted on other threads by other people, posters on right-wing sites like Big Hollywood use the "if you don't agree with me, you must be stupid" argument all the time and frankly, it's gotten old.
Besides, how do I know that you really believe what you're saying?
Your word?
Why should I trust that?
Act of faith?
Okay, but if I'm supposed to have faith that you really believe what you're saying, don't I deserve the same privilege--even if I disagree with you? Especially if I disagree with you?
Tonio, you are right in many regards. It is possible for two intelligent people to disagree. It happens quite often. If people have different experiences it naturally leads to different conclusions. That's why I enjoyed the debate club so much, and didn't mind that the team captain was a conservative. She did a good job.
However, with regard to the GOP leadership specifically, they have played so fast and loose with not just opinions but facts, I am far more suspicious of them than I am of conservatives I actually know. And there is a list of conservative commentators I simply ignore. George Will I read with interest, but Glen Beck? Ann Coulter? These are the voices of conservatism?
When I had that argument with my friend, I thought Reagan was an old duffer who lacked the intellect of a real statesman but played one on TV pretty well. It never occured to me that the Republican Party would become MORE anti-intellectual, more wasteful, etc. There was a time when I thought it was healthy to have both conservatives and liberals as their compromises could turn out to be better than if either worked alone. I think that might have even been true, once upon a time. But slowly but surely that belief withered away. Yes, I still know individual conservatives who are good, smart people, but they aren't in charge.
pre-Disqus comments
posted by funWithHeadlines (Sun Dec 13 09, 5:10PM)
You probably already saw this, but David Poland commented on the same Manohla Dargis NYTimes article that you are talking about:
http://www.mcnblogs.com/thehotblog/archives/2009/12/women_looking_f.html
posted by Paul (Sun Dec 13 09, 6:33PM)
I wonder if Carlson is the smoking gun I needed years ago. Back when Reagan was president, a friend of mine and I got into an argument. I said the GOP leadership had to be liars, because no one in their positions of power and levels of education could actually believe what they were saying, while he, as a long standing member of AA, argued that humans were quite capable of rationalizing falsehoods so that they themselves believed them. But if Carlson is playing dumb, then she must think her viewers are dumb, which leads me to believe she might know what she is saying is dumb.
As an aside for those of you who have read enough of my post to wonder, he won the argument by saying that not everyone was as well read and introspective as I was. At the time I just gave in and agreed, but two hours later I started laughing because I realized I'd given in because of my ego; if a sales rep or politician had said something like that, it never would have worked.
posted by Tonio Kruger (Sun Dec 13 09, 10:08PM)
Unless you have psychic powers, you're never going to know that for sure and anyway, "if you were smart, you'd believe the exact same things that I do so if you don't, you're either a liar or an idiot" is hardly the type of argument I would expect to hear from an enlightened person.
As noted on other threads by other people, posters on right-wing sites like Big Hollywood use the "if you don't agree with me, you must be stupid" argument all the time and frankly, it's gotten old.
Besides, how do I know that you really believe what you're saying?
Your word?
Why should I trust that?
Act of faith?
Okay, but if I'm supposed to have faith that you really believe what you're saying, don't I deserve the same privilege--even if I disagree with you? Especially if I disagree with you?
posted by Paul (Mon Dec 14 09, 5:53AM)
Tonio, you are right in many regards. It is possible for two intelligent people to disagree. It happens quite often. If people have different experiences it naturally leads to different conclusions. That's why I enjoyed the debate club so much, and didn't mind that the team captain was a conservative. She did a good job.
However, with regard to the GOP leadership specifically, they have played so fast and loose with not just opinions but facts, I am far more suspicious of them than I am of conservatives I actually know. And there is a list of conservative commentators I simply ignore. George Will I read with interest, but Glen Beck? Ann Coulter? These are the voices of conservatism?
When I had that argument with my friend, I thought Reagan was an old duffer who lacked the intellect of a real statesman but played one on TV pretty well. It never occured to me that the Republican Party would become MORE anti-intellectual, more wasteful, etc. There was a time when I thought it was healthy to have both conservatives and liberals as their compromises could turn out to be better than if either worked alone. I think that might have even been true, once upon a time. But slowly but surely that belief withered away. Yes, I still know individual conservatives who are good, smart people, but they aren't in charge.