open thread: Doctor Who: “The Husbands of River Song”

River Song. River Fucking Song. I thought we were done with her, but Moffat cannot leave well enough alone. There’s a joke that goes “Joss Whedon, George R.R. Martin, and Steven Moffat walk into a bar, and everyone you love dies.” But it really doesn’t make sense- Moffat doesn’t know how to get rid of characters. He pretends to do so, and then he brings them back. Season Six was all about finding a loophole to keep the Doctor from dying, and then you look at the incredible contrivances to get rid of Amy, Rory, and (I gather) Clara without technically killing them. I haven’t watched any episodes since “Kill the Moon,” which was particularly bad but not “quit forever” bad. It’s less that I’m angry and more that I just don’t care. Maryann, you’re the one who got me into the show, and I seem to be getting out of it with you as well. Hopefully sooner or later Moffat will quit or be fired and we can all meet back here to talk about good episodes. Alternatively, while I know you’re busy already, if you’re itching for a DW fix, you could do some classic episode reviews.

Well, I must admit that I actually liked this episode but then again, I’m evil.
But seriously, folks.

I’m obviously not evil and speaking as one who has been accused of hating animals because he disliked Marley and Me and hating art because he disliked Sideways, I’m not too fond of the standard fanboy philosophy which judges a person exclusively by whether or not they like the same movies and TV shows that others do. Yes, we all would like to think that the people we most like also share all our tastes in every conceivable area of popular culture but in real life, things don’t always turn out that way and anyway, there are more important ways by which to judge a person apart from whether or not he or she likes a particular movie or TV show.

Anyway, I must admit that I always liked Alex Kingston and while it took me a while to warm up to her River Song character, I actually liked the fact that she showed up in this episode. Granted, I have had enough angst in my personal life as of late that I found myself welcoming an episode of DW that was actually funny and escapist. Indeed, in wake of the show’s recent attempts at more-serious-than-thou-ism, I found this episode to be a breath of fresh air.

Is it perfect? No, and it’s hardly a feather in Moffat’s cap that he doesn’t even try to hide the fact that this particular episode is a thinly disguised fairy tale.

But it worked for me and I found myself enjoying it more than I expected to — though I did find it a bit scary that I’m actually starting to welcome the fact that this show has commercials in its BBC America version.

Anyway, I liked the fact that for once, Capaldi’s doctor was matched with someone closer to his own age than Ms. Coleman and that Ms. Kingston actually got a chance to get off some good lines. (Then again Ms. Kingston probably could have spent the whole episode reading a Microsoft manual and I still would have enjoyed this episode. Yet more proof that I’m evil…) For that matter, I also liked that no guitar solos were attempted by the Doctor in this episode. (Apparently guitars have become the Doctor’s equivalent of a little red sports car or a hot young blonde.)

Anyway, I don’t seriously expect this episode to change MaryAnn’s mind about the show but I sincerely hope that she finds something to like in it. If not, well, who knows? Maybe she’ll find another TV show that she cares about as much as Doctor Who. That seems unlikely now but then back in the 1990s, the very notion of a 21th century version of Doctor Who seemed unlikely.

River Song is someone I found interesting as an *idea*, but more often than not found intensely annoying as an actual character.

But I found myself enjoying this episode despite that, and despite the usual Moffaty annoyances. For this episode, River failing to recognize the Doctor was a funny running gag, but I thought there would be something *behind* that, even if just a throwaway line about how River voluntarily had a mental block put in so that she could evade a telepathic scan or some other blah blah blah reasons. But no, it turns out that the episode just requires her to be kind of obtuse in an out-of-character way for 3/4 of an episode.

But I found the episode to be mostly fun. And I’m generally a little more willing and able to accept the Moffat “fairy tale” approach in the Christmas episodes, since they seem a little more apocryphal than the average Doctor Who story anyway.

It didn’t bother me when she failed to recognize him. She thought he’d used up all his regenerations (as did he), so she didn’t have an updated picture of him. What did bother me was that she was so callous and mercenary at some points in the episode that I lost a lot of my affection for the character (and I had a lot of affection for the character, even after “Let’s Kill Hitler!”)

I liked it. But honestly I like River Song. If they did a River Song spin off I would be cool with it. I didn’t like how she knew that she was approaching the end. It does take some of the bite of Forest of the Dead. Honestly every episode with River in it brings me back to Forest of the Dead. Her speech after 10 says, “Time can be rewritten” kills me every time. And her subsequent appearances have only managed to give that scene more pathos.
I honestly kind of like this series. It wasn’t great. It wasn’t as good as season 5 or 6, or season 4 (I <3 Donna), but it was better than 8.
But I have to say, I have read rumors that because of sagging ratings they may replace Peter Capaldi, and I think that would be a shame. Clearly the shows problems are production issues, not casting.

I was okay with River until Let’s Kill Hitler, when it was revealed that the only reason she became an archaeologist was to track down the Doctor. She was a good character because she was just as interesting and mysterious as the Doctor, and had her own life that happened to intersect with his every now and then. Once it turned out her entire life revolved around him, she was just another (as Where Are the Women? would put it) woman who is mostly pretty awesome and perfect who is present to support a man improving himself.

There will be at least one audio adventure between River and 8 (Paul McGann) coming out next year.

River and The Doctor’s timelines are out of synch. It’s like they meet in random order.

Keep Capaldi. Ditch Moffet.

Well, a silly bit of silliness, this, with some attempt at emotional scenes at the end. I didn’t mind the return of River Song, just that I’d lost hope for the character soon after Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.

I actually liked most of the season story-wise, it just had the same old problem for me that I’ve never been able to feel to supposedly deep connection between the Doctor and Clara. Given that the last three episodes of the season pretty much revolved around that deep connection, it obviously was a problem for me.

I would like to see what Capaldi can do with a better showrunner, but I doubt he’ll get the chance.

Because Capaldi is getting the blame for the ratings being lower than they were with Smith, and is easier to sack than Moffat.

Also, hoping you’ll at least read this, Mary-Ann… I’m not entirely sure whether you mean you’ll just stop watching the Capaldi episodes or give up the show in its entirety, but if you’re going with the latter, please don’t. Nothing that the Moff does can erase the lovefest of 1963-2010 Doctor Who. Just because three years of a show as long as DW are rotten(at least, from your POV) shouldn’t erase the hard work of those who came before, or indeed, those who come after.
Even if you’ll never watch a new episode again, it’d be a shame to lose you as a fan entirely. We may have our differences, which is frankly odd given the circumstances, but I tell you what, we are incredibly clever.

You never did, as I said, “I’m not entirely sure whether you mean…”
You kept saying “I am done with Doctor Who” so I thought you might mean leaving the show behind altogether even though there’s still so much of it to enjoy and cherish.

That’s weird, because at one point it seemed like they were in exact reverse order. I distinctly remember the first time Matt Smith kissed her, he freaked out and started flailing, and River got really sad. She realized that, from his perspective, that was their first kiss, which meant that for her it was their last. I’m going to have to chalk this up as Moffat can’t keep track of his own continuity.

Watch Heaven Sent. It’s the one with only Peter Capaldi in it. A rare classic.

You’re forgetting that a night on Darillium is 24 years, which can be extrapolated into other 12/River adventures. Or maybe they just settled down for 24 years(yeah, sure).

You’re done with the program? Good, let those of us who still enjoy the program continue to enjoy it without the *constant* vitriol.

I’m so terribly sorry that someone has forced you to read my comments on the show. This sounds like an abusive relationship, and you should try to escape it or ask someone for help.

Did you see the introduction for the new companion? And if you did, what are your thoughts?