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die hard is a xmas movie | by maryann johanson

curated: John Lasseter is part and parcel of Pixar’s problem with women

It’s not a complicated connection.


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  • RogerBW

    Some people have worked out that “The Girl” is not sufficient to define a character any more. Some haven’t. Many people are prone to try to reproduce the things they enjoyed in their chidhood, but when filmmakers do it everyone else gets it too.

  • I’d observe that ALL movie companies have the same problem! It is so hard to find movies centered around women. In most action movies, a woman is like “Smurfette.” Probably why Wonder Woman exploded in popularity so much this year – we want our own heroes! Pixar is just like most of them. OTOH, we went to see Coco yesterday, and it seemed like a lot more women worked on that movie than you normally see in the credits of a Pixar movie.

  • Jurgan

    I’ve pointed this out before, but it’s ironic that Pixar cites Studio Ghibli as an inspiration in the visual department, but don’t follow their story cues. The majority* of Ghibli movies have female protagonists, yet hardly any Pixar movies do.

    I remember several years back Bob “Moviebob” Chipman argued essentially that Pixar and Disney had partitioned the audience so that Disney catered to young girls and Pixar to young boys. I generally like Moviebob’s reviews, but there are a lot of holes in that argument.

    *I don’t have data on this, but I feel confident female-led Ghibli movies are at least 50% of their output, and probably a lot higher.

  • Bluejay

    Studio Ghibli hasn’t hired any female directors either. They may not exactly be entirely free of sexist attitudes.

    https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/8/11889214/studio-ghibli-yoshiaki-nishimura-women-directors-misogyny

  • natef

    The lack of female directors is a problem across the industry, not just with Pixar. Their sister studio has also yet to hire a solo female director and only just recently had their first of any kind with Jennifer Lee and Frozen. And they just recently cancelled what would’ve been their next property with a female co-director in Gigantic.

    What happened with Lasseter is awful but it’s a red herring, as Pixar still does a generally better job writing female characters than most other US animation studios

  • I’d observe that ALL movie companies have the same problem!

    Oh, absolutely. But Lasseter is just such a perfect way to explain the problem.

    I haven’t seen *Coco* yet — Disney specifically refused to let me attend an awards screening because the film doesn’t open here in the UK till January — but it looks like yet another movie all about boys as far as I can see.

  • Pixar cites Studio Ghibli as an inspiration in the visual department, but don’t follow their story cues.

    They follow the cues they want to see.

  • It’s not a red herring. Creating a tiny minority of good female protagonists involves an extremely low bar.

  • natef

    Yes, but singling out Pixar implicitly excuses the other studios.

    Personally, I’m a fan of the My Little Pony cartoon series which stars a majority female cast. But just because it has been directed by men throughout its run, does that mean it’s not feminist?

  • Dr. Rocketscience

    Not exactly the most apt comparison. Direction seems to be the one major creative field where women don’t dominate. The series was created by a woman. At least 6 of the 11 credited producers of the show are women. Women hold 105 of 220 writing credits across the 170 episodes of the show. It’s also one show, produced by Hasbro Studios. How well do they do overall?

    Also, the statement “singling out Pixar implicitly excuses the other studios” makes no sense. No matter what, each studio needs to be reckoned with on its own. Pixar is in the hot seat at the moment because Lasseter as (finally) been called to task.

    Meanwhile, the statement “Pixar still does a generally better job writing female characters than most other US animation studios” explicitly excuses Pixar. Why are you doing that?

  • natef

    Regardless of whatever issues they have I don’t think any other studio gets the hot seat as much as Pixar even when their highups weren’t getting busted for sexual misconduct. Have you ever seen anyone complain about Sony Animation or Illumination’s lack of female representation the way they do Pixar’s? I sure haven’t. And I suspect if anyone at those places did get busted for something like this they still wouldn’t care, or at least not enough to use it as an indictment on the studio as a whole.

    All in all, I think there are two separate issues at play here and we need to decide which one is more important. Ideally we’d have more of both movies about women and movies made by women, but I believe one can only come with more of the other and I think movies about women made by men such as Finding Dory and Inside Out are more useful in achieving that goal than a movie like Kung Fu Panda 2 which was made by a woman but about men.

  • Bluejay

    it looks like yet another movie all about boys as far as I can see.

    It’s apparently doing wonders for Latinx representation, so hooray for that (seriously). But (not being familiar with the story) it’s hard to see why the film couldn’t have been about a girl who visits the underworld.

  • Bluejay

    I think there are two separate issues at play here and we need to decide which one is more important. Ideally we’d have more of both movies about women and movies made by women

    Why can’t we consider them both equally important, and call for both simultaneously? We need more and better representation of women onscreen (whether told by men or women), AND we need more opportunities for women creators to tell stories (about women AND men).

  • natef

    Because IMO there’s an deeper issue of a relative lack of females being interested in getting into animation in the first place. I don’t think the fact that the industry has been dominated for so long by men (in the US or any other country) can be simply boiled down to a professional glass ceiling. There’s only so many female animators who have the will, nevermind the talent to get a position as a director, and there has to be more interest in promoting the profession to female children and teens, whether it be from representation in the movies themselves or in their schools.

    Pixar’s braintrust is mostly men and has been since the beginning, but I still believe they as well as Disney Animation are making the most concerted effort to improve feminine representation in their movies out of any animation studio in the US and it’s only because of the respect they’ve built up as a filmmaking studio from their “boys club” origins that people care enough about them to complain that they haven’t done enough. Barring any other exposed sexual misconduct, it’s not realistic to expect them to completely overhaul the group dynamic that they’ve trusted for 20+ years and make fifteen straight movies with female protagonists in the name of equal representation. You need to accept that your hopes for that likely aren’t going to come from Pixar as long as Stanton/Bird/Docter/Unkrich remain their most reliable talent.

    Now where some short-term hope MIGHT come from is a new UK-based studio called Locksmith Animation which was founded by Sarah Smith and Julie Lockhart and is releasing its first film in 2020; which, alas, is directed by men and about a boy, but nevertheless with two women in charge I still think your hopes can be better met by them.

  • Bluejay

    I’m a little confused by your argument. (Maybe you can help me out.) So you’re saying that “movies about women” and “movies made by women” are two separate issues, and that the first issue is more important, because onscreen female representation is what will inspire more women to get into animation? But if the end goal is to hire more women to make movies, then isn’t it important to, you know, actually hire more women to make movies? (There may currently be fewer women in animation than men, but the number is not zero, and there ARE talented women to be hired and given a chance to shine. When Pixar alienates women like Brenda Chapman and Rashida Jones, that’s not helping.)

    You also say that Pixar has done a lot for female representation; but then you ALSO say that because Pixar is a boys’ club, “it’s not realistic to expect them to… make fifteen straight movies with female protagonists in the name of equal representation.” But this is an admission that it DOES matter who gets to tell the stories, and it IS important to hire more women as creators.

    If anything, this shows that the two issues are interrelated, not separate. We need more stories about women onscreen, whether told by men or women. AND we need more women behind the scenes and telling the stories, whether about men or women. We can celebrate Pixar’s men when they tell good stories about women, while ALSO calling for them (and other studios) to hire more women writers and directors. AND we can celebrate women who produce or direct stories, even when they’re stories about men (because there’s no reason why women should be limited to telling ONLY women’s stories; if men can tell good stories about characters who aren’t like themselves, then so can women).

  • Dr. Rocketscience

    Have you ever seen anyone complain about Sony Animation or Illumination’s lack of female representation the way they do Pixar’s?

    Do these studios have comparable problems? Have you looked? Would it change the situation at Pixar? If we find problems at other studios, does it make Pixar’s issues better, or worse?

    we need to decide which one is more important

    Hmm, who are you about to throw under the bus?

    movies about women made by men such as Finding Dory and Inside Out are more useful in achieving that goal

    And the answer is, every woman who has ever made a movie and any woman who ever will.

    So whatever broad strokes you want to paint Pixar’s culture with because of his behavior, you also need do it with them.

    You say this like it would be a bad thing.

  • natef

    I love how you conveniently ignored my point in bringing those movies up as comparables to Kung Fu Panda 2. Of fucking course it would be even better if women made movies like those, but as it stands right now that is all your can reasonably expect from Pixar as long as they’re still run by the close knit collection of male animators who started it. While it would be nice if they would bring more women into the fold and consistently make more movies about then, it’s just not going to happen as quickly as you want it to, and there will likely be more stories like Lasseter’s to outrage you along the way.

    I admit I haven’t looked in depth at the other studios’ issues behind the scenes, but I don’t think I’m wrong in assuming most of you just do the same kind of surface glancing at Pixar’s movies and directors and jump to similarly generalized conclusions. From what I can deduce of studios like Illumination, DreamWorks, Sony, and even Laika, they’re pretty much all “boys clubs” too even if they’ve never had an outrageous character like Lasseter exposed. And I certainly don’t think they’ve made nearly the effort Disney Animation has under Lasseter’s watch.

  • natef

    My point is that there’s only so much Pixar themselves can do right now to advance the cause. They are trying to bring more women into their fold, and Lasseter being exposed will surely make it more of a priority, but at the top they’re still likely going to be a “boys club” for at least another decade if not longer. Everyone here seems to be demanding more instant and systematic action on the matter, but that’s just not realistic, and I’d prefer to just appreciate the baby steps where I see them; in Coco’s case they being a completely Latino acting cast in front of and behind the scenes.

  • Dr. Rocketscience

    I didn’t so much ignore it as dismiss it as being about as relevant as bringing up Ellen Ripley in a discussion about female protagonists in sci-fi movies, but I didn’t want to embarrass you by pointing out the obvious.

    …all your [sic] can reasonably expect…

    And here we have the crux of the problem with your argument. This is what I mean by explicitly excusing behavior.

    …it’s just not going to happen as quickly as you want it to…

    It’s not gonna happen at all if we just shrug our shoulders and say, “Well, I guess that’s just the way it is.”

    there will likely be more stories like Lasseter’s to outrage you along the way.

    I goddamn well hope so.

    the effort Disney Animation has under Lasseter’s watch

    What effort is that, exactly? Disney Animation has made 9 features under Lasseter, if you count 2007’s “Meet the Robinsons” and 2008’s “Bolt”, both of which were probably in production when he took over as CCO. 5 of those featured a female protagonist, but you can hardly give Disney Princesses from classic fairy-tales – “The Princess and the Frog”, Rapunzel (“Tangled”) and the Ice Queen (“Frozen”) – too much credit. They’ve employed only 1 female director (Jennifer Lee who co-directed “Frozen”) out of 8 credited directors during that time, several of whom have (co-)directed more than one film. Of some 30 credited writers, only 5 are women. So, no, Disney has not been the model of inclusion under Lasseter. Better than Pixar, maybe, but at this point, “better than Pixar” is like “better than ebola”.

  • Bluejay

    Everyone here seems to be demanding more instant and systematic action on the matter, but that’s just not realistic

    It’s not realistic only if people decide it’s not realistic. It’s really not that hard:

    1. Hire women writers and directors on your next several projects. They exist, and they’re ready to work.

    2. If having a penis is irrelevant to the plot, then make the main character (and several supporting characters) female instead of male. Done.

    And it’s up to the public to demand immediate and systematic action, no matter how “unrealistic” it is. That’s what creates pressure, and pressure is what forces institutions to change. If studios are diversifying THIS slowly after we’ve been complaining loudly about diversity for years, then imagine how much MORE slowly they’ll change (if at all), if we complained even less.

    We can acknowledge and appreciate “baby steps” and progress in other areas, AND keep reminding them that it’s not enough. It’s possible to do both!

  • natef

    I don’t want to go through life constantly looking for reasons to be pissed off at the people who are trying to entertain me. Disney is a private business and is under no more of an obligation to have a proportionally accurate demographic representation in their workforce than an elementary school or a construction company. The film industry has only evolved, for better and for worse, through positive feedback. If a director makes a movie that gets good reviews and does well at the box office, they typically get rewarded with more freedom and a bigger budget for their next movie. Similarly, Jennifer Lee worked her way up the ranks to be a screenwriter on Wreck It Ralph and was rewarded with co-helming Frozen and its future sequel. Progress is going to happen at its own pace regardless of how much hand wringing we lowly peeps do on social media and I’d prefer to just trust that the employees there desire it as much as we do and are constantly working to make it happen.

  • Dr. Rocketscience

    I don’t want to go through life constantly looking for reasons to be pissed off at the people who are trying to entertain me.

    Well, lucky for you, you don’t have to look. A lot of it is front and center. The rest is the hidden underbelly getting exposed.

    Disney is a private business and is under no more of an obligation to have a proportionally accurate demographic representation in their workforce than an elementary school or a construction company.

    This is a cop out.

    The film industry has only evolved, for better and for worse, through positive feedback.

    This is bullshit.

    Similarly, Jennifer Lee worked her way up the ranks to be a screenwriter on Wreck It Ralph and was rewarded with co-helming Frozen and its future sequel.

    So? Was she the only woman in the city of Burbank?

    Progress is going to happen at its own pace regardless of how much hand wringing we lowly peeps do on social media

    Both a cop out and bullshit.

    I’d prefer to just trust

    Not only do I have zero cause to offer this trust, I also believe in holding people accountable.

  • natef

    But Lasseter is being held accountable. His reputation has pretty much been destroyed and even if it really is just a six month sabbatical there’s no way they let him have that kind of power again.

    Look, I get that you’re going to consider Disney the Third Reich until they establish that they’re a squeaky clean, completely egalitarian workplace. But I recognize that you’re just as likely to find inequality and unsavory characters in about any workplace and it doesn’t diminish the good intentions of the majority of people who do treat their fellow co workers with dignity and respect.

    Call what I say bullshit however much you want, but it doesn’t make it any less true.

  • Dr. Rocketscience

    I get that you’re going to consider Disney the Third Reich until they establish that they’re a squeaky clean, completely egalitarian workplace

    You could not “get” me any less if you tried. With this comment you are quite literally arguing with a voice in your head.

    Call what I say bullshit however much you want, but it doesn’t make it any less true.

    Maybe you’re unfamiliar with the idiom, but by calling bullshit, I’m telling you that things you are saying are not true. It is not true that “The film industry has only evolved… through positive feedback.” It is not true that “Progress is going to happen at its own pace…” There are entire fields of science that can tell you that these things aren’t true.

  • Bluejay

    I don’t want to go through life constantly looking for reasons to be pissed off at the people who are trying to entertain me.

    Job inequality and lack of representation aren’t trivial, obscure issues that people are going LOOKING to be pissed off at. It’s plain for all of us to see (or not see). If you aren’t personally bothered by a massive industry that impacts all of us culturally yet still heavily favors representation of — and employment for — white men to the detriment of all other groups, then good for you. That doesn’t mean the problems aren’t there, or that it’s not totally valid for women, POC, and their allies to be upset by them and point them out.

    Disney is a private business

    …that’s worth billions of dollars and has enormous cultural impact, owning several entertainment companies and countless pop-culture icons, and putting stories in front of — and messages in the minds of — nearly every person on the planet. Are they legally or constitutionally obligated to their audience? No. But as the people whose money they want, damn straight we have the right to speak our mind about what we want to see from those who hope to entertain us.

    The film industry has only evolved, for better and for worse, through positive feedback.

    It would be nice to think that the industry simply follows the money, but that just isn’t the case. Hollywood is still hobbled by its self-defeating prejudices. Movies that center on women and minorities have statistically been shown to be generally extremely profitable, yet studios are slow to greenlight any follow-ups or hopeful imitators. (How many female superhero films have been greenlit after Wonder Woman? Where are the other historical movies about overlooked minorities, after the runaway success of Hidden Figures?) Meanwhile, studios keep hiring Johnny Depp after his countless flops.

    Progress is going to happen at its own pace regardless of how much hand wringing we lowly peeps do on social media

    Dude, industries pay attention to social media. Complaints work. Advertisers get jittery and pull sponsorship from programs that piss off social media. Studios look at social media constantly to get the pulse of what people are saying or concerned by. Poor social media buzz on the whiteface in Ghost in the Shell helped tank the film. Disney pulls offensive costumes from stores because of social media. And so on and so forth. Don’t give up what power you have!

    I’d prefer to just trust that the employees there desire it as much as we do and are constantly working to make it happen.

    Do you also trust that the people in government are going to do the right thing for ordinary working people, because they desire it as much as we do? “Trust” isn’t going to cut it.

    If they’re working to make it happen, it’s because they’re aware of problems. If they’re aware of problems, it’s because those problems are talked about. So we’re going to keep talking about them.

  • natef

    Your tone talking about them certainly indicates to me that you have no interest in saying anything positive about Disney so forgive me for reaching for the easy Nazi comparison.

    I don’t really care what you think science says, my experience following the film industry for the past decade or so has indicated to me that past positive results are a major factor in how studios determine their hiring and greenlighting decisions, and with the sheer amount of depressingly idiotic and uninformed rambling by anonymous people on social media I’d hope that’d be far from the first source they go to for ideas on how to run their business, and it’s a further reason why tiresomely broad complaining about lack of representation just annoys me instead of engaging me.

  • natef

    What do you call Coco? Black Panther? Frozen 2? A Wrinkle In Time? Captain Marvel? Freaking Wonder Woman 2 which at this point is probably the DC Universe’s saving grace? I’m sure there are a ton of minority historical dramas in development as well like there usually are but I don’t have IMDB at my disposal to verify that claim. Most of them end up being mediocre and forgettable with only a few rising to the level of Hidden Figures style hit and it’s usually not apparent that will happen until very close to their release date if not afterward.

    There’s a difference between obvious bad judgment cases like the Maui costumes and nebulous demands for more minority representation. Pixar and Disney are for the most part still very successful with the body they currently have and the only way things are truly going to change in that regard is either if someone steps down or if the audiences stop coming. Regardless of whether you’re a woman, a POC, a Muslim, a hindu, a native of Sitka, Alaska or whatever, you’re only going to see more representation of yourself if you or someone like you pushes for it from within.

  • Dr. Rocketscience

    past positive results are a major factor in how studios determine their hiring and greenlighting decisions

    As MAJ is fond of pointing out, if that were remotely true, the last 20 years would have been awash in “Titanic” imitators.

    tiresomely broad complaining about lack of representation just annoys me instead of engaging me

    This is likely to come as a huge shock, so you’d better sit down.
    Are you ready?
    OK, here goes…

    It’s not about you.

  • Dr. Rocketscience

    What do you call Coco? Black Panther? Frozen 2? A Wrinkle In Time? Captain Marvel? Freaking Wonder Woman 2

    At this point? A reasonably good start. Some indication that things are just starting to change. A call to keep up the pressure.

  • Bluejay

    What do you call Coco? Black Panther? Frozen 2? A Wrinkle In Time? Captain Marvel? Freaking Wonder Woman 2 which at this point is probably the DC Universe’s saving grace?

    I call it progress! And you don’t think the public conversation around diversity had anything to do with it? Even so, that makes ONE upcoming movie centered on a black superhero, and TWO upcoming movies about female superheroes, compared to a whole shit-ton of movies about white male superheroes. It’s GREAT that they’re happening, but it’s NOT ENOUGH. So we’re going to keep talking about the need for diversity, thanks.

    Most of them end up being mediocre and forgettable with only a few rising to the level of Hidden Figures style

    Sure! Sturgeon’s Law, right? But if we keep giving countless movies about white men a chance, knowing some will be hits while many will fail, then we should be giving more movies about women and POC that chance, too. We need more movies about women even if it also means more CRAPPY movies about women.

    Regardless of whether you’re a woman, a POC, a Muslim, a hindu, a native of Sitka, Alaska or whatever, you’re only going to see more representation of yourself if you or someone like you pushes for it from within.

    And from without. Why do you keep dismissing the power of public pressure?

    Also, I thought you were arguing that “movies about women” were more important than “movies by women”? If representation of women only happens when women push for it from within, then that means it’s important to have women on the inside, telling the stories.

  • natef

    “Also, I thought you were arguing that “movies about women” were more important than “movies by women”? If representation of women only happens when women push for it from within, then that means it’s important to have women on the inside, telling the stories.”

    I didn’t intend that statement to mean women in a broad sense. People are complex and even with movies focused on POC and female characters I know there are always people within said factions who aren’t satisfied with the portrayal. In the case of Pixar’s female-driven movies, they were borne out of personal experiences as a “side character” in the story or as a continuation of a narrative they had crafted earlier, but they can still inspire women on the outside to make their own personalized stories about women and become that person pushing for that representation of themselves.

    “It’s GREAT that they’re happening, but it’s NOT ENOUGH. So we’re going to keep talking about the need for diversity, thanks.”

    I just wish the narrative would be more about the “GREAT” part and less about the “NOT ENOUGH”. It has too much of a tone of negativity and outrage and makes me not want to listen to it. I can see though that we’re probably going to have to agree to disagree on this.

  • natef

    I’d have to do some research but I’m pretty sure Titanic inspired quite of few imitators, most notably being Michael Bay’s Pearl Harbor. I know disaster movies were quite the rage in the late 90s and a lot of them were crafted around grandiose romantic plotlines. Of course, it’s not hard to imagine that most of them couldn’t dream to replicate the grandeur of Titanic, so that template probably fell out of favor awhile ago. I know Brad Bird had been trying to get a romantic disaster movie staged around the 1906 SF earthquake off the ground for awhile but that went by the wayside when Tomorrowland bombed.

    You don’t have to sympathize with my feelings on this issue, but you also don’t have to resort to patronizing non-arguments like “It’s not about you” which certainly don’t make me feel any less tired and annoyed.

  • bronxbee

    i think the many many members of the organization WIA (Women in Animation) would disagree with you.

  • Bluejay

    People are complex and even with movies focused on POC and female characters I know there are always people within said factions who aren’t satisfied with the portrayal.

    The more movies we have about women and POC, the more opportunities there will be to portray different KINDS of women and POC, with all their flaws and differences and complexities. When there’s only, say, ONE black superhero movie or ONE female superhero movie, those characters unfairly bear the burden of being expected to represent “blackness” or “femaleness,” whatever that means. Whereas no single white male superhero represents “all white men” — you can have lots of different personalities, from snarky billionaires to patriotic soldiers to geeky teenagers to godlike aliens, and if you don’t enjoy one kind of white male hero you have the luxury of choosing to watch a different kind of white male hero. No one is debating, “Does Tony Stark do justice to the representation of men?” the way we may feel forced to debate Wonder Woman. So quantity matters as well as quality.

    I just wish the narrative would be more about the “GREAT” part and less about the “NOT ENOUGH”. It has too much of a tone of negativity and outrage and makes me not want to listen to it.

    Well, both parts are true, whether you like it or not. And there’s plenty of talk about the “great” part, are you kidding? Look at all the glowing think-pieces about Wonder Woman, and Moana, and I fully expect a lot of praise for Coco. If you don’t want to listen to the “not enough” part, you can always avoid clicking on “not enough” articles and read something else. Meanwhile, those of us who think this is an important issue will keep talking about it.

  • it’s hard to see why the film couldn’t have been about a girl who…

    This is true of almost all movies about boys.

  • Yes, but singling out Pixar implicitly excuses the other studios.

    No, it doesn’t. Even if anyone were “singling out” Pixar, which no one is.

    I haven’t seen *My Little Pony,* so I cannot comment on its feminism or lack thereof. But why *doesn’t* it have any female directors?

  • Because IMO there’s an deeper issue of a relative lack of females being interested in getting into animation in the first place.

    Ah, the old “women just aren’t interested in the job.” Can you back up this feeling of yours with any, you know, facts?

    it’s not realistic to expect them to completely overhaul the group dynamic that they’ve trusted for 20+ years

    This is literally the problem of the old boys’ club.

    make fifteen straight movies with female protagonists in the name of equal representation

    Why is that unrealistic? Isn’t it unrealistic of them to make so many movies with male protagonists?

  • If a director makes a movie that gets good reviews and does well at the box office, they typically get rewarded with more freedom and a bigger budget for their next movie.

    Only if they’re white men.

    Progress is going to happen at its own pace

    Fuck that shit. We can *push* more more change. If fact, we have to. It’s the only thing that results in change.

    I’d prefer to just trust

    How nice the world must be for you.

  • Look, I get that you’re going to consider Disney the Third Reich

    Nice strawman.

  • I know disaster movies were quite the rage in the late 90s and a lot of them were crafted around grandiose romantic plotlines.

    Name 20 of them.

  • I’m sure there are a ton of minority historical dramas in development as well

    What makes you so sure? And even if you’re right, you do know the difference between “in development” and “in production,” don’t you?

  • tiresomely broad complaining about lack of representation just annoys me instead of engaging me.

    Let me guess: You don’t have to go looking for movies that represent *you* well, do you?

  • Danielm80

    A number of people showed up on this site to argue that the main character in Mad Max: Fury Road was Mad Max and the main character in Sicario was the sicario–you know, because his name was in the title.* Coco is a female character. I’m curious how many people will argue that the movie is really about her.

    *Apparently, these people have never seen The Wizard of Oz, Fiddler on the Roof, or The Maltese Falcon.

  • Coco is a female character. I’m curious how many people will argue that the movie is really about her.

    LOL.

  • I actually had no real objection to the lead character in Coco being a boy because the women in his life were so important and so vivid. And it turned out a strong male relative he yearned for wasn’t at all what he expected (I’m not giving away anything by saying that).

  • Jeff

    Ho please.

  • As always, though (and I say this still not having seen the film): If the women are so amazing, why isn’t the story about them?

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