Recently kar3ning at the LiveJournal Captain’s Log went to see New Moon, and realized that Bella and Edward’s relationship appears to bear all the signs of an abusive one. kar3ning asked the questions The National Domestic Violence Hotline poses to help a woman determine whether she is being abused, and answered them on Bella’s behalf:
Does your partner:
* Look at you or act in ways that scare you?
Check.* Control what you do, who you see or talk to or where you go?
“Stay away from the werewolves. I love you.”* Make all of the decisions?
Check.* Act like the abuse is no big deal, it’s your fault, or even deny doing it?
“If I wasn’t so attracted to you, I wouldn’t have to break up with you.”* Threaten to commit suicide?
“I just can’t live without you. In fact, I’ll run to Italy and try suicide by vampire if anything happens to you.”* Threaten to kill you?
On their first date.
And so on, to this conclusion:
Now I’m pissed. According to the NDVH, “If you answered ‘yes’ to even one of these questions, you may be in an abusive relationship.” This list is fifteen.
We can snark all we want to concerning Twilight — let ’em try and stop us. But here’s a genuine concern: Is an entire generation of girls internalizing the idea that abuse is romantic thanks to these books and movies?
(FYI, The LiveJournal post has gone viral — see GalleyCat and especially io9, which has a lively discussion going on in comments.)
(If you have a suggestion for a QOTD, feel free to email me. Responses to this QOTD sent by email will be ignored; please post your responses here.)
I remember after Rhianna was beaten last year, several talk show hosts had shows on physical abuse. I think Oprah had teen girls on her show, and many of them said, “Well maybe she deserved it.”
I’m by no means suggesting Twilight caused these teens to think abuse is “normal.” I am suggesting, however, that there needs to be a more open discussion with teen girls (and boys) about healthy relationships. If Twilight can be the way parents talk to their kids about physical and mental abuse, then it’s a good thing. What’s scary, though, is the number of a parents who think this is a great role model for their daughters simply because it promotes abstinence. What does that say about our country? “Hey daughter, it’s okay if he treats you like dirt, just don’t have sex, k?”
I think they are, yes. Any pro-Twilight forum is full girls saying that Edward’s controlling behaviour is romantic because ‘it shows he cares’.
What amazes me is when I see comments on the internet from guys who say their wives are really into the series and see the movies multiple times in theaters. I can understand how teenagers can miss this stuff, but how do adult women in their 20s and 30s go along with this crap?
“Until you are his wifely property, then sexual abuse is okay too.”
I mean I’m only going by what I have heard about the series and saw in the first movie, but no, I don’t think it’s healthy at all.
It’s hard to generalize, but: my sixteen-year-old niece, a big Twilight fan, formerly planning to go to art school and become a teacher, is now talking about getting married right after high school instead of going to college, because her dumb-but-cute and extremely possessive boyfriend thinks that “people who go to college are snobs.” I think kids should read whatever they want to, but it does seem that the Twilight obsession is reinforcing unhealthy tendencies in this case.
Which does raise the question of how much all our obsessions reveal about our characters: does the art we’re attracted to either reveal what’s already within us, or create something new?
Very interesting discussion on io9. Here are some things I wonder about:
1. Twilight did not initially become popular because of aggressive marketing (correct me if I’m wrong), but because of word of mouth–lots of girls genuinely got into the story. If they’re predisposed to like a story with an unhealthy message about relationships, does that say something about how they’re already conditioned by the culture? Is Twilight a symptom, not a cause? Rather than teaching girls to accept abuse, is it just reaffirming what they already believe?
2. Is it possible (as I commented elsewhere) we’re not giving fans enough credit for being able to separate fantasy from reality? People who like ultraviolent movies, for instance, are not necessarily ultraviolent themselves. Don’t we all sometimes enjoy guilty pleasures even when we know full well they’re crap? I think it was Mimi, in comments elsewhere, who mentioned a Washington Post article about women who understand Twilight’s flaws and agree with its critics, but who love the series anyway. I’m sure there are plenty of anecdotes of people who are “brainwashed” by Twilight’s message, but how much do they represent what the majority of fans believe?
3. If Twilight IS affecting a generation of girls this way, what is to be done? Should we censor the books and films? Order girls and women not to check it out and decide for themselves? Tell editors and studios that they can’t put out books/films with similar messages? In this society, at least, we can’t prevent cultural products from becoming popular despite how terrible we think they are. The best we can do is keep calling attention to their flaws and keep having this conversation.
My personal feeling is that the kids are alright. Twilight doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and with good parenting/peers/school/exposure to better books and movies, they’ll have a fighting chance of growing up having healthy attitudes and knowing how to think for themselves. If that’s not happening, then the problem is deeper than just the mere existence of Twilight.
That is a great article and discussion on io9 and when I read it over the weekend, I sent it off to Mark Kermode who is usually so on top of his game at pointing out Hollywood’s hatred of women, but for some bizarre reason has been defending Twilight and the sequel. I hope he addresses it on Friday’s show.
Thank you for making sure this gets out to a wider audience.
I’ve just read an article about the fourth book in the Twilight series and this trash seems to get even worse in its treatment of women by the time that book comes into play. I wonder if they will ever make a movie out of it, since this seems to be bizarre beyond belief.
http://chud.com/articles/articles/21684/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-WHY-BREAKING-DAWN-MUST-BE-MADE-INTO-A-MOVIE/Page1.html
Twilight is certainly not the originator of this idea in our culture, but once it enters the feedback loop symptom/cause become meaningless since it’s both.
I don’t think the problem is in people confusing reality with fantasy. I think the problem is that while this romance is obviously fantasy, it is held up as or viewed as a positive model for real romance.
Nobody thinks of the protagonists of the GTA video game series as being model citizens. Action heroes in violent movies are role models of a sort, but nobody thinks they should be emulating Rambo in their everyday lives. However there are girls who see Edward as an example of the kind of boyfriend they would like to have, and Bella as a role model for how they should behave in such a relationship.
We certainly can dissuade our daughters from reading it, and inform them why. At least then if they do read it they can be forewarned that certain themes, even if enjoyable in the book, are not healthy for real life. In essence I do agree with you, the best we can do is keep discussing the issues.
The problem is deeper than just Twilight. But Twilight, due to massive popularity and exposure, is I think have a measurable negative impact on its own.
Yes, bluejay, good memory! It was indeed me–this site’s resident highly-educated 30ish feminist reader-of-much-including-Twilight–who linked to the (hilarious, IMO) Washington Post article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/18/AR2009111804145.html
I’ve got too much going on IRL at the moment to wade into this particular discussion. but my basic sense is that no major societal *anything* is going to be “thanks to Twilight.” There has always, always been inane crap out there polluting the minds of innocent youth. No one series of books/movies can get me too worked up.
Twilight is the refined/weaponized/crack cocaine version of existing cultural themes of romance. I think a lot of this simply flew under the radar as existing themes in the “Romance” genre, but as long as it was in it’s little ghetto, people ignored it.
I think Twilight is going to be a mixed bag. It’s certainly going to bring a whole new generation of girls into the seedy side of Harlequin romances, but at the same time, I think it provides a teachable moment for much of the population about the sort of disturbing themes we’ve been ignoring in our society.
Then again, asa culture, we’ve always seemed to have trouble separating the target of the moral panic from the underlying themes that caused it to begin with.
Really? I’ve heard alot of things that people say twilight is doing, but this is one of the more outrageous. I am actually getting personally offended by reading this. Twilight is one of the most iconic love stories of my generation at least and is so far from an abusive relationship it’s crazy. The series has vampires and werewolves, any sane person would realize that this story is fictional, and if they don’t, they have bigger problems than the Twilight Saga. Edward and Bella are madly in love. Besides, he harley even touches her- even in the ways she would like. To say that this story is mental abusive is crazy to. Love is mental abuse, but you deal. I realise that this is a big problem now, but Twilight is definatly not contributing to that.
Really? Why? Please explain what’s offensive about the article.
I just want to make sure I’m understanding you here. You believe that love is mental abuse that you just deal with. Is that what you’re really saying? Because if it is, my god, you need to seek professional help.
Being fictional makes no difference when so many people view the fictional relationship as a sound model to base a real and healthy relationship around. When they want to have a relationship like Bella’s and Edward’s, obviously without the vampirism, then what difference does it make that they know the source material is fiction?
Being an iconic love story would be fine, if the story contained any hint that the love itself was tragic. If it was in any way suggested that Edward was not exactly what Bella needed, but she was bound to him by love regardless — this is the story of many iconic loves. Instead the only tragedies are those things that keep the two apart and otherwise Bella and Edward’s relationship is presented straight-faced as an ideal one.
And while there’s nothing wrong with liking the series, you should really sit down and think if whether having a partner who acted like Edward would be healthy.
Indeed, she wants it pretty bad, but is denied. Thus showing two virtues that their relationship embodies as ideal: Abstinence until marriage, and the man deciding for the woman.
No, it isn’t. It really truly isn’t. You can be mentally abused by someone you love, but that, like many loves, is not a healthy love. It’s a tragic love, and even more tragic when the person being abused can’t see it, or can’t bring themselves to leave. Presenting that kind of love as if it is the ideal is the tragedy of Twilight.
Very true, but again I wonder just how widespread that phenomenon is; I’d be interested in seeing a broad survey that asked fans how seriously they take Twilight as a model for their own lives. And I suspect that even some of those who *do* might learn from experience and change their minds; figuring out what’s good and bad in relationships is part of growing up.
In some ways this reminds me of past panics over comic books (all that crime, horror and sex will corrupt the kids!), video games (they’ll turn kids violent, just like the Columbine killers!), controversial lyrics in popular music (the kids will all turn into cop-killers and rapists!), etc. While there are certainly valid discussions to be had in each case, I don’t think the kids, as a whole, ever turned out as badly as the grownups feared.
I suspect we’ll survive the Twilight craze just fine. We should be able to discuss its pros and cons without Fearing For The Future Of Women.
Last I checked, anyone who is forming their ideas of acceptable contact based on the behavior of teenage boys doesn’t need a book to tell them to normalize abuse.
I have no idea, I’m just extrapolating from what I’ve seen people say on message boards. Both outright stating that they want a relationship like the one in the book, and those that defend Edward’s behavior as virtuous.
It’s true that learning this kind of thing is all part of growing up. I just hope they learn it before they decide to skip college for the sake of a possessive and controlling boy.
Yes, that’s true, and ultimately I’m not that worried. But on the other hand, all of those things were supposed to corrupt the youth via some kind of subliminal satanic message so they’d become violent or sex-crazed just by accident. If I heard a lot of young people saying, just to pick an example from something I’ve recently read, that Rorshach was a stable person whose life should be emulated, or that The Comedian wasn’t really a violent misogynist asshole and his relationship with Sally Jupiter was normal and healthy, then I’d be worried.
In memorian that guy who voiced the trailers …
“In a world … where vampires exist and sparkle in sunlight … where werewolves walk around shirtless … where a young girl walks into near-death situations every four minutes … the only man who is good fpor her … is a vampire who decides what she should do.”
Hopefully, most girls realize that this described world is nott he one they inhabit in, like, reality.
@CB: Sorry, but a man not touching his significant other in ways she wants for whatever reasons is *not* deciding for her, its simply not letting her decide for him.
Interesting activity: redo the list for other vampire/human pairings.
Buffy/Angel: 8
Sookie/Bill: 8
Buffy/Spike: 10, but it’s Buffy that’s the abuser
Agreed. Although, to be fair to our much-hated sparklyvamp, Edward actually wants Bella to go to college and have a career. (Right, Mimi?) Yeah, it’s still controlling, but at least it’s in favor of higher education. ;-)
Interesting point. A girl has the right to say “no,” and should be listened to when she says it. Does a boy have the same right?
@MaSch:
Considered in isolation and taken out of the larger context of their relationship (or in the context of a completely different relationship) that would be true.
However Edward is explicitly controlling in so many other cases, it is clear that this particular case is also one of controlling, not avoiding being controlled. Once again he must control her, in order to protect her, in spite of her own feelings. He does it for her own good, or so I’ve seen his actions defended, because he loves her.
Only this time he’s protecting her virtue from herself, and the mistake of pre-marital nookie. When you consider that abstinence is a-priori the “right” choice in the Twilight universe, it’s even more clear what’s going on.
Strange about the two-way street between culture and art. After all, it’s not as if these girls and women are tied down and forced to watch these movies. They read the books and like what they read. For the sake of my own intellectual consistency, I fall into the camp of the book being a result of culture rather than the other way around.
It might just be as simple as romance novels pushing the envolope to attract readers and viewers the way men’s action movies and novels keep ramping up the violence to get men’s attention, or how the GOP potty mouth pieces keep getting nuttier and nuttier. If the essense of drama is conflict, well, here we are.
And you know, Rhett Butler raped Scarlett after they got married and feminism didn’t come to an end. It was off stage in the movie, but after he literally forced her into the bedroom, they show her smiling afterwards.
Paul, you said it yourself: It’s a two-way street. It’s not the book being a result of culture as opposed to the other way around, because it’s both ways ’round simultaneously. The books are culture, and feed back into the rest of culture, which results in other books entering our culture, and so forth.
Similarly, this discussion is part of the culture feedback loop. Hopefully by having it we can feed back into culture in a positive manner.
“Being an iconic love story would be fine, if the story contained any hint that the love itself was tragic. If it was in any way suggested that Edward was not exactly what Bella needed, but she was bound to him by love regardless — this is the story of many iconic loves. Instead the only tragedies are those things that keep the two apart and otherwise Bella and Edward’s relationship is presented straight-faced as an ideal one.”
Wuthering Heights, anyone?
One of the disadvantages with modern fictional romances vs. older ones is the lack of logical barriers. When Jane Austen was writing, there were plenty of social barriers to two basically good people getting together. Today, there are almost no cultural barriers to sex; religion is supposed to be one but it has failed. The primary barriers to relationships are psychological, thus I find myself thinking that a lot of fictional characters, and real people, need a therapist a lot more than a lover. In other books, the barrier is that one of them is a jerk, and the barrier is supposed to be overcome. And in paranormal romances, one of the barriers is that one of them is a monster, so you get books in which women love monsters. (In urban or dark fantasies like “Kitty and the Midnight Hour” and “Maladicte” it can be reversed)
So the Twilight series didn’t come out of the blue. It’s been building up to this in the romance publishing industry for a long time. More and more dangerous men, more and more conflict. This is just the break out series that went mainstream.
@MaSch:
While Edward certainly does have a right to say no, he uses the fact that she wants sex as a bargaining tool for what he wants out of the relationship. He uses it to get her to marry him (something she does not want to do), so even then it just becomes another form of manipulation and control.
So Edward doesn’t want to have sex with her because he’s afraid he’ll hurt her, but used her desire to have sex with him to get her to marry him? Then he frets about having sex with her? If that’s true, that’s messed up. He shouldn’t marry someone he’s afraid to have sex with; aren’t there any sparkling female vampires around, or are they too smart to get mixed up with someone so mixed up?
Kind of off-topic, but in response to Knightgee: Any one else find it strange that Bella doesn’t want to get married because she’s doesn’t want to commit at such a young age. Yet, she desperately wants to become a vampire so she can live forever and ever with Edward (and give up her family and her soul…). I know being bitten is a metaphor for sex, but come on Meyer, your Characterization makes no sense.
Back on topic: I think the culture begeting culture discussion is fascinating. The question I have then is how did we get here? How did we get to the point where so many find this relationship to be romantic and normal? Assuming the Twilight phenomenon is only a small part of an underlying cultural movement, why is there a trend that promotes heteronormative values and female submissiveness that women actively participate in? Is it because society has forced these things down our throats for centuries, or is it just a part of the backlash we’ve seen this decade against cultural liberalism? (To be clear, I’m not suggesting that everyone who reads and enjoys Twilight hates cultural liberals or progress, but I do think if you believe this love triangle is a good role model for teens, then you probably have a deep desire to live in 1950s America).
bronxbee: Emily Bronte’s ghost is wailing outside in the cold because of the horrible, horrible misunderstandings of many a young girl who swooned over Heathcliff. Bronte did *not* think that this relationship was ideal, or even good, or something.
Knightgee: Didn’t know the whole context. Sounds like Edward is a real wanker. If anyone wants to imagine how it looks like when a sparkly vampire masturbates, please share it with us …
JT sez
Kermode’s response is interesting and gave me food for thought. I think it’s a case of his being completely removed from the American culture war context (which I think tends to loom large over the debate surrounding it. That Meyer is a devout mormon housewife who wrote a chaste romance novel that’s very old fashioned is all fairly symbolic to folks who have been trying to free women from the still very strong religious conservatism. I’m from the Australs btw)
I think he makes a good point in that light; it’s just a teen romance all about wallowing in obsession and having someone obsessed about you. And it not being sexualised is fairly novel in this day and age, probably making it more accessable. From what I’ve seen of it he’s being a bit soft on the overall standard of the writing/filmmaking but this is a guy who cried during Mama Mia.
To make a case about a film’s percieved subtextual message and its effect on young psyches you have to take it that each particular point about plot or character behaviour being strung into this message is a) reaching people as it appears to the critic and b) is being processed as a group to create the same message in the audience, consciously or otherwise.
I find this a pretty hard case to put. Much as readings like the one heading this topic seem glaringly obvious to a lot of us, I’m unconvinced that’s how it’s really being seen. We saw a post here a little while ago about someone finding all sorts of laudable things about Edward’s behaviour, particularly concerning men dealing with emotion and conversation. How many of the above negative moments can be dismissed by the fact that it’s a fantasy with vampires in it?
There’s more detatchment here than non fans realise I think (and I confess the particular …tenor of this fandom makes it hard to see).
Consider the message of Disney’s Beauty and the Beast (and most thoroughly not that of the original story): “if a man behaves vilely to you but you put up with it and are nice to him, he will turn nice”.
I’m broadly in agreement with Left_Wing_Fox: this particular excrescence is just the most visible aspect of the zeitgeist. What to do about it? Give kids copies of good books instead! Diana Wynne Jones is very sound on not putting up with a messed-up relationship…
Even my ten year old daughter got the similarities to beauty and the beast right away, which put me in a quandry. I absolutely loathe everything about twilight I have seen or read, though admittedly I couldn’t get beyond the first chapter of the first book. Both main characters in the first movie are jerks, preening pretty people with no time to waste on the regular ones. This is why for a while I was certain the ytube of the women’t telling men how to be like Edward was a parody – her name’s Bella Swan for crying out loud, how does she get off saying Edward doesn’t love her for her looks? It’s all we know about her. Then you’ve got a set up where the only interesting boys are either vampires or wherewolves. How can that be a good thing? And finally, there is no logic, not even internal logic, in anything anyone does in this movie. Besides the marriage thing, which occurs in books I am not familiar with, there’s a scene in which Edwards father tells the rest of his clan that “Bella’s a part of this family now.” After one date? In high school? I nearly fell off my chair. You would think that someone roaming the planet for hundreds of years would acquire, if not wisdom, at least a familiarity with how things work.
As far as the effect on girls, it’s certainly possible to use these things as teaching moments – they’re ever present these days, you have to do something. I don’t think it’s odd that teenagers or tweens fall for this stuff. They’re still figuring out their world, and the image of a all-powerful protector to cherish them always as they get further from their parents is powerful. Most of them will figure out on their own how twisted it is when you peel the mystical layers away from the story. I am saddened, though about all the adult women who fall for this crap. They must have sad lives to still be searching. I always try to get them to read the Stoker version instead. Just as romantic, better written, still ridiculous in parts, and the controlling vampire is the friggen bad guy!
This reminds me of all the Harry Potter haters who said that adult fans of that series were being infantile. It’s judgmental and condescending. People who like things that you consider crap are not automatically losers and idiots.
Of course they are! That’s what makes all this so much fun! I pretty much consider anyone who likes mustard to be of inferior stock.
; – )
Plus…
The HP books we’re actually a good read(minus a chunk of DH, but I digress)as opposed to whatever these TW books can be considered.
stingraylady: The Stoker version of vampire fiction – Oh, maybe we could compare Twilight idiocy about men and women with Dracula idiocy about men and women.
Any writer who made a female character say “Men are so much more willing to sacrifice than us weak and feeble womens” in all seriousness after Oscar Wilde parodied such melodramatic talk in “The Importance of Being Earnest” is baaad (although maybe in a good way). And who could forget Van Helsing’s statement that Mina Harker has “a woman’s heart but a man’s brain”, meaning it as the highest of compliments?
And let’s not even talk about the subtext of xenophobe Victorian men struggling to keep their women safe from foreign influences and unspoiled by or cleaned of sexual experience.
Is it possible to pick and choose the aspects of a story you like? It’s pretty obvious that the emotions in the book run high. No one in questioning the intense love between Bella and Edward. Maybe Edward is a controlling bastard, maybe he doesn’t realize what he’s doing. But you have to allow for the idea that fans really enjoy the simplistic romance of two people in love and ignore the less healthy aspects of the relationship.
I myself love the Honor Harrington series because of the writing and characters and the *huge* geek load of space battle description, but I can ignore the idea that a monarchistic society is superior to a democratic system with a welfare program.
@MaSch:
Yeah I don’t think I’d recommend Stoker’s Dracula as the feminist cure for Twilight.
Yet at the same time the result of comparing these novels, one written at the end of the 19th century to one written at the beginning of the 21st, is pretty sad.
@Bracyman:
I’m sure that’s the case for a lot of fans. I’m just alarmed when I see people defending Edward’s behavior, especially when they say it’s for “Bella’s own good”. It’d be one thing if they acknowledged that he can be a bastard, but said Bella loves him anyway and that’s the way love is. There are plenty of classic, iconic romances that are to varying degrees unhealthy (most of Shakespeare for example). This is often what makes them “interesting” and “not boring”.
The difference between them and Twilight is that the text does not present the unhealthy aspects of the relationship as though they were unhealthy, but rather as though it were the ultimate realization of (Mormon/LDS) romantic ideals. So while I do think most fans are capable of discerning that this isn’t the case, the fact is that the books lend themselves to being read as though it is. Thus the alarming posts I see.
I wouldn’t immediately dismiss the claims that some of Edward’s actions are for Bella’s safety. This is going to sound ridiculous, but he *is* a vampire after all. He’s got the super strength, a near uncontrollable hunger for her blood in particular and a horrible fear that he will hurt someone he loves more than his own life. In those circumstances, I can totally understand a certain amount of waffling between wanting to be with the love of your life and trying to stay away from her so that you don’t lose control and bite her head off.
I’m not ruling out the possibility that Edward is a manipulative loser, but since this is written from the perspective of a high school girl, and I’m unfortunately familiar with the real life behavior of high school children, I’m more willing to ascribe Edward’s actions to being more indecisive than anything else. Yeah the relationship is unhealthily obsessive and incomprehensible, but be honest, isn’t that most high school romances?
Ohh-kay. I probably should have followed the link to that kar3ning post. Seriously? I’m guessing if you can cherry pick events and take actions or dialogue out of context, damn near any relationship can meet that criteria. Give me a few minutes and I could make it look like Ned Flanders has homer Simpson hopelessly locked in an abusive relationship.
@Bracyman: I actually very much question the love between Bella and Edward, mainly because it’s poorly developed. We have her admitting to loving him after a handful of conversations halfway through the first book and they are discussing marriage after only having been dating for a couple of months at most. They barely know anything about each other and their chemistry is non-existent(or rather I didn’t by it as real, either in the book or the movie). They went from acquaintances to committed lovers in 60 seconds and at no point is this love questioned or challenged. This is why I found New Moon to be the worst of the series, because the reader is expected to empathize with the suicidally crazy actions of a girl who is depressed and catatonic because her boyfriend left her. I don’t feel as if the book has actually earned the relationship it’s trying to give us, if that makes any sense, so the drama comes off as fake.
I can think of several instances in Eclipse and New Moon where Edward seriously steps over the line from overprotective to scary. Not to mention the fact that he was actively stalking her before they were even in a relationship. Not as extreme as painted by the test, but uncomfortable and creepy nonetheless.
@Knightgee: I believe even the die hard fans agree with your opinion of New Moon. But poor writing does not an abusive relationship make. And it’s hardly the only teen relationship in literature that strikes up instantly.
Truthfully, I’m a little surprised that no one is bringing up the bad relationship between Bella and Jacob.
I finally read the first “Twilight” at a grown woman friend’s insistence a couple of months ago, and I was horrified, and told everyone I knew that the central relationship was clearly, obviously, blatantly abusive.
I am certainly not capable of seperating out what came first, kids’ attitudes or a huge cultural icon like this series, but either way, it frightens me deeply.
I have 3 teen nieces, 2 of whom think this “Twilight” stuff is crap and/or hilariously funny. But the third? We had a loooong talk about it after I read it. She argued and resisted about the points I tried to make, but I’m HOPING I at least planted a critical-thinking seed in her head.
What about the relationship is abusive? And I can draw a line between unhealthy relationships and abusive relationships. Sadly, I don’t think you can cite the blog entry that started this whole thing. Every one of those responses is taken out of context, misquoted, or a misinterpretation of the original question.
I don’t even know why I’m adopting the defense for Twilight. I guess it just seems popular to bash the series, even by people who haven’t seen or read them. The same thing happened to first person shooters, D&D, comic books and they’ve all become mainstream. It seems unfair that the same people who fought to defend their geeky passions are the same people ragging on Twilight the hardest.
I was about to defend D&D as empowering for girls, the few that played, but then remembered those ultra sexy pictures; Xena wear all over the place. But it did level the playing field.
I dunno. I don’t think Twilight is the end of the world, or that it will convince an otherwise-straight-thinking teen that abusive obsession equals love. On the other hand, I do believe it’s part of a corrosive larger culture, and I would definitely use it as a launching point to talk about acceptable relationship behavior if I had a daughter or son who loved the books. I’d never forbid anyone from reading anything, but I’d certainly have a conversation about what is bad and good about what is portrayed. I myself stayed in an emotionally abusive relationship for years in my teens and early twenties because I grew up internalizing “When a Man Loves a Woman” he sleeps out in the rain, etc — no matter what, he puts up with it, no matter how bad. It wasn’t until the song “Low Self-Esteem” came out that the line “The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care, right?” made me realize I really did think that way, even if I never thought of it in those terms.
With experience, I have much better relationships now. B)
Heh. I’d point out that the D&D art just as often featured buff barbarian men in loin cloths, but I can’t seriously act like that balances the scales of sexist imagery. As a boy I always laughed (even as I oggled) at the pictures of a bad-ass warrior woman with a huge sword and a full set of chain mail armor with a gap in the chest so it can show her cleavage and fail to protect her heart.
But it is true that in D&D a woman could become the most powerful arch-magi in the world as easily as a man, and nobody would dare tell her she should get married and stay at home to have babies. So it is at least egalitarian in that respect — at least once they got rid of the silly strength limitation from way back in 1st Edition.
Oh, and Bracyman?
I readily defend first person shooters, D&D, comic books, and yes even Twilight as forms of expression. However that’s not the same as saying that what is being expressed in a particular work is a positive example for real life. The very second I hear people on a message board arguing that CJ from GTA:San Andreas is a positive role model for urban youths, or the type of person they’d like to have as a boyfriend, then you’ll hear me start bitching about that phenomenon. Because that would be sad and messed up.
CB, I do think forms of expression have their intended purposes, but ultimately *we* are the ones who impose meaning on our entertainments. There are no disclaimers on GTA or Scarface or The Godfather or A Clockwork Orange saying “These characters are entertaining and badass in the context of their stories, but please don’t emulate them in real life”; and there *are* some sad people who do look at such characters as role models (the Wikipedia entry for GTA describes some controversies and lawsuits associated with the game). And yet most of us enjoy these things without seeing them as positive examples–not because the works themselves tell us to, but because of the set of values and ideas we’ve gotten from other sources in our (hopefully well-balanced) lives. *We* decide whether what is portrayed is healthy or unhealthy.
As I’ve said, I think Twilight is probably enjoyed by many (or even most) fans as a fantasy with little or no bearing on reality, while it is seen by a subset of fans as a blueprint for their emotional lives. It seems to me that, like the cave in Dagobah, people find in it what they bring to it. People are responsible for their actions, and to say “the book or the movie or the video game made them do it” is to rob them of their agency.
I watched the first film and after all of the frenzy, decided to start reading the books. A friend, who loves the series gave me the second book.
I only made it to about 200 pages (wherever Bella has to go save the sparkling idiot from killing himself).
I honestly didn’t see the parts I read or watched as abusive. I did see it, however, as profoundly stupid. And I found several different concerns.
1) I understand tweens and teens eating this story up. Forbidden love with a cute boy alone would be enough to get the girls to read. What I find amazing is that women of all ages, literally from 8 to 80 are OBSESSED with this series. Which leads me to…
2) If adult women find Edward so dreamy and the books so engaging then it stands to reason that WE are the ones teaching our daughters to find unhealthy relationships attractive. If we accept it as romantic, then certainly our children will as well.
3) While I haven’t found what I did read as abusive, I think it’s a horrible message to send young women that love is supposed to be painful, that we are surprised when someone loves us, feeling that we don’t deserve or are worthy of the partner’s love.
It is also a HORRIBLE idea to consistantly remind readers through the characters’ dialogue and actions that if you can’t be with the one you love, it’s okay to become catatonic and even romantic to kill yourself. I realize that she ripped that one off of Shakespeare, but there’s no reason to keep it in the public’s psyche.
It is also a HORRIBLE idea to suggest to girls that it’s okay to hallucinate and induce hallucinations if you like the image you’re seeing. Jump off a cliff, nearly kill yourself–as long as it allows you to keep seeing things that aren’t really there, go for it. And what self respecting woman would jump off a cliff just to see a man for a brief moment that ABANDONED HER?
This idea of maudlin love, love that’s supposed to hurt, love that isn’t deserved is the dangerous message here. After years of finally building women up to believe that they are equals, that they can be President, that they can do whatever they want, this book tears all of that down in 6 easy installments by telling girls that they aren’t worthy of love, that it’s okay to fall to pieces when a man leaves you, and that you need another one that you’re not worthy of just to get by.
What also worries me is when Kristin Stewart says Bella is a good role model for “these chicks” and EW.com claims that New Moon is so hated because we aren’t used to seeing females in lead roles. Of course, this is from someone who hasn’t read the books. http://movie-critics.ew.com/2009/11/26/new-moon-why-its-good-for-the-future-of-movies/comment-page-14/#comment-9146
As for the Buffy/Angel argument, there was definitely some ill-advised pining going on there, but since Buffy herself had so much inner confidence and pride, it never felt like abuse or anti-feminism. She could still kick ass. She wouldn’t have gone jumping off bicycles just to see Angel one last time. Run away maybe…Okay, maybe Joss Whedon has some issues as well (I think he gets off on having powerful men beat on women, ie Tahmoh Penikett/Eliza Dushku scenes).
But to wrap up, I think it is an overall social concern for women of all ages and classes that they accept these books as okay. While I didn’t specifically read anything abusive, it was certainly unhealthy.